| Official Luthiers Forum! http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Binding with CA - End grain problems http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=1206 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Ok - I've noticed some end grain darkening at the butt joint when I wick CA into the binding joints. I'm wondering, should I be sealing the end grain of my bindings before gluing them down? Would shellac be fine for this? |
|
| Author: | Tim McKnight [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yes & yes. CA is a no no around spruce if it hasn't been sealed first. I learned the hard way when the CA wicked into the wood and showed up as a flourescent yellow under the finish! I didn't see it until after the finish was on. |
|
| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Tim, i had the same problem with a cedar top once, only it was around the rosette, I learned to seal with shellac. I guess I should have assumed that bindings where the same, except for the most part, there hard wood, not softwood, so I didn't they the ca would wick so easily. |
|
| Author: | Tim McKnight [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I would be more concerned with CA wicking into the top. I mis-read your original question about wicking into the end grain of the [bindings]. Can't answer that one, sorry. You might give Charles Fox an email or a call. I believe he uses CA on his bindings. |
|
| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Tim, I always schallac the binding channel just for that very reason.. |
|
| Author: | ejones [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Not to hijack this thread, but I'm wondering about this sealing with shellac. I see that LMI sells shellac in association with it's french polishing supplies. It's in a flake (?) form that is dissolved in alcohol (?). Is this the stuff that you guys are using? In the lightest possible color? Will it alter the natural color of the woods? Can you apply it before filling the pores? Help. A little tutorial would be much appreciated. 
Eric |
|
| Author: | HankMauel [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I seal my rosette channels and the binding/purfling rabbets with Zinsser's Seal Coat. It's a 2 lb cut the is available at ACE Hardware store. Get a quart and check the date stamped on the bottom. It's supposedly good for 3 years from that date, but I toss mine after the can has been opened a year, just for safety sake. Much easier than trying to chase down GOOD QUALITY alcohol (like drinkable stuff)to dissolve your own flakes. The Zinsser stuff does not change the wood color, only enhances it like any clear finish would. Look here for info: http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=72 |
|
| Author: | Pete Licis [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I did a test regarding this the other day. With respect to purling lines, not bindings, but I assume the same would be true for bindings. In the photo below, the ends of rightmost four lines were dipped in LMI white glue, left to sit a couple of minutes, and pulled through a paper towel to remove the tiny drop of LMI white glue on the very end. The lines were inserted dry and flooded with CA. I cut the white lines from Aspen, which as you can see, don't seem to soak up any color from the CA even without sealing the ends. So this doesn't actually prove that sealing with glue works ... I should have used Maple. I've seen maple lines that almost disappear when flooded with CA. Anyway, I read of this method, and I figure it should work with bindings too. I'm pretty sure it's in the Fox style dry assembly GAL article a few issues back. Pete 
|
|
| Author: | tl507362 [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
"I see that LMI sells shellac in association with it's french polishing supplies. It's in a flake (?) form that is dissolved in alcohol (?). Is this the stuff that you guys are using? In the lightest possible color? Will it alter the natural color of the woods? Can you apply it before filling the pores?" Eric, I used the CA method on my bindings on my last guitar. I just used the Spray Shellac can from zinsser(you could mix your own 1lb cut of shellac and rub it on with a pad). I actually spray the top(around the edges) before cutting the binding channels, but make sure it is a light spray. Very little goes a long way. This helps to make cutting the channels cleaner. Then after the channels are cut, I then spray again with the shellac in a can, just going over the binding channels with only one spray. After I'm finished attaching the bindings and wicking the CA, I scrape my bindings down. When doing the final sanding for the finishing stage, this removes the shellac from the top with no problem, and I'm back to bare wood again. Hope this helps. Tracy |
|
| Author: | Sylvan [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
A word of advice: If you are using CA always, and I mean always, seal with Shellac, either Zinseer's or flakes you have made up yourself. If you do not you will see it on the finished product. This, however, brings up an important point whether you are using CA or not, I would suggest that throughout the building process you constantly shellac the parts you are working on. For instance, before and after cutting the rosette. It seals the wood and keeps the wood from accepting stains from your hands, etc. I have found it invaluable to use shellac liberally throughout the building process. Your finished work will cleaner for taking this step. |
|
| Author: | Daryl [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Another point is what kind of CA are you using. It comes in thin, medium and thick. The thin wicks into every thing. For me, I find the medium better suited for the multilayer binding work I do on my classicals.(7 layers) I also use the medium when doing the plastic bindings and when making pickguards (archtop) |
|
| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
[QUOTE=Sylvan] ... This, however, brings up an important point whether you are using CA or not, I would suggest that throughout the building process you constantly shellac the parts you are working on... I have found it invaluable to use shellac liberally throughout the building process. Your finished work will cleaner for taking this step.[/QUOTE] Sylvan...Does mean that you coat the inside surfaces of the top, back and sides with shellac? If so, do you coat before or after gluing on your braces? Also, what effect does coating these surfaces have on moisture transfer? I actually like the idea of semi-finishing the inside surfaces but was told that it would negatively affect the ability to re-glue braces should they ever need to be replaced or repaired. There was also the question of sealing the wood's ability to transfer moisture as humidity changed. Please elaborate or correct the impression I got from your post. |
|
| Author: | Sylvan [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
JJ - I do not finish the insides of the instruments with anything. What I am talking about is sealing the exterior wood surface to protect it from dirt, stains, etc. during the building process. I am only talking about the exterior surfaces. I keep a bottle of shellac at my workbench and apply it with a paper towel throughout the building process. Especially on the exterior spruce and other porous woods. I find that wood that has been shellacked (sp?) cuts better and resists dirt and stains making the finishing process much easier down the line. |
|
| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Got it...thanks for the clarification. |
|
| Author: | Sprockett [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I do the same thing Sylvan does, I just use the Zinser in a spray can, it's going to get sanded off when I get to the white stage anyway, but it does protect the top especially from getting grimy... -Paul- |
|
| Author: | Colin S [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
[QUOTE=Sylvan] I would suggest that throughout the building process you constantly shellac the parts you are working on. For instance, before and after cutting the rosette. It seals the wood and keeps the wood from accepting stains from your hands, etc. I have found it invaluable to use shellac liberally throughout the building process. Your finished work will cleaner for taking this step.[/QUOTE] Great tip! that's what this forum is all about. Colin |
|
| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
shellac in a spray can! IM THERE! Dang I love this place!  |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|